00:00:12    In Hungary, it is a fundamental condition of democracy that there should always
00:00:19    be a presidential opposition. So let's create an opposition that is government-minded. I agree that there
00:00:27    is no real political democracy where a mass party is formed,
00:00:32    and then the other party never stands a chance.
00:00:38    There is a chance that opposition parties will be needed.
00:00:43    I have always considered the year 1875,
00:00:51    when Kálmán Tisza united the two parties a tragic one
00:00:57    because in Hungary there were conditions for bipolar politics
00:01:04    and it was then that the great mass party and the government had no chance of a real opposition,
00:01:10    which necessarily led them in an unproductive and aimless direction. The Horthy Era also
00:01:17    had a major political flaw in the so-called united party,
00:01:23    which also produced aforementioned small partiest that had no chance of forming government.
00:01:28    So we agree on this, I believe, that it is very important
00:01:34    that the conditions for an alternating political regime, in the political life of Parliament,
00:01:40    really develop. One of the conditions for the
00:01:47    emergence of a true democracy is the rule of a parliamentary democracy,
00:01:56    the rule of law in the whole state apparatus and this must be linked to
00:02:04    a very good municipal system. So democracy can only be imagined
00:02:12    as a true democracy if the local governments really live alongside central government,
00:02:17    and therefore it will be incredibly important that the number of
00:02:24    elected people in the whole administrative apparatus in Hungary really be replaced,
00:02:32    all the civil servants, so that people can feel once again
00:02:39    that they elect people whom they can trust. I agree that the press is
00:02:46    not one of the elements of democracy in the sense Montesquieu understood it,
00:02:52    but it is a power factor. Additionally, there is a fundamental truth
00:02:58    that political democracy can function only where parliamentary democracy
00:03:03    can be built on a wealthy middle class in a broad sense
00:03:09    and that is why it is necessary to strive
00:03:16    - not in the old sense of state officials - but a very wide medium layer
00:03:22    of peasantry and skilled workers that we see in every functioning democracy.
00:03:27    A well-functioning democracy can only be built on such a base,
00:03:34    because where there is desperate poverty in its masses democracy cannot really be built.
00:04:00    Today, at half the way, we are in a serious, difficult situation.
00:04:08    The country is in a serious, difficult situation and this means
00:04:15    that we have to think through this path,
00:04:20    what we have done, we have to say it clearly,
00:04:26    and we do need to repeat again and again what heritage
00:04:30    we have taken over. What is happening now is that some are going to be upset
00:04:36    if we mention our inheritance and if we talk about the members of the previous state party,
00:04:41    painting themselves now as social democrats, drawing themselves to the international network of social democrats.
00:04:48    If they want to enter the political race, I think
00:04:53    they will have the sense to think for a longer time there and they won't rush away.
00:05:01    But we see representatives of these parties in mid-term elections.
00:05:09    It's like they never had anything to do with it, like snake skins - they just take off their past.
00:05:17    Central Committee secretaries become the best reformers and then reformers become the best liberals,
00:05:22    if you like, and national democrats that you want and they know everything better
00:05:28    because they're experienced, professionals
00:05:34    but they've bankrupted the country! We're not talking about it anymore.
00:05:41    It's not about some cheap propaganda, it's about analysing the state
00:05:46    in which we've taken over the country and just because the country
00:05:51    was having a heart attack, it still crossed the finish line
00:05:57    they were jus taking her away on a stretcher right away.
00:06:13    Please (the old guards) don't act as if you've given power over elegantly, stemming from
00:06:20    some wonderful judgment of the situation. We were very correct when we took over the government.
00:06:35    In these two years, we have accomplished
00:06:41    many things that are not popular.
00:06:47    Did we ever say in the Hungarian Democratic Forum that popular tasks would follow?
00:06:56    Why, for the sake of the country,
00:07:02    we are willing to sacrifice our own political party. I hope
00:07:08    that this will not be necessary, but when we put it this way
00:07:14    we have just said that we will not sacrifice the country for party interests,
00:07:18    if necessary, rather vice versa. Therefore,
00:07:23    we have chosen the only possible path, which means transformation.
00:07:33    We've said it many times, but it may not hurt
00:07:40    to have a difficult inheritance. We do not doubt that after
00:07:47    the retortion period in Hungary after 1963, the conditions continued to improve
00:07:54    and that there were reform experiments in 1968.
00:08:00    Consequently, the political and economic situation in Hungary has improved more significantly
00:08:06    than in the neighbouring countries. But, please, to what do we owe this? To 1956.
00:08:20    Let's not be so grateful
00:08:25    to the past system upholders so as to think
00:08:31    they figured it out on their own.
00:08:38    In 1956, when János Kádár was taken to Moscow with Ferenc Munnich,
00:08:45    Mátyás Rákosi was put there for him - who did not say a word there in Moscow
00:08:53    but when the demands were made they always showed him Rákosi.
00:09:00    Malenkov, Khrushchev and the others knew how to handle it.
00:09:04    And when that happened and when Kádár took on this role
00:09:10    it certainly wasn't an easy role but he did have a routine.
00:09:18    Then please, they've always had 1956 in mind.
00:09:27    That's what they said in Moscow. It was argued that they could not
00:09:33    carry out those claims. The Hungarian government had a separate sobbing man
00:09:41    in the person of Antal Apró who said in Moscow that we could not pay any more.
00:09:47    He claimed that otherwise it would be '56 all over again.
00:09:52    And it went on this way and we assured ourselves that military spending was smaller than elsewhere
00:09:58    because the army and the police, together with the Minister of Interior Boross,
00:10:03    had never exceeded the strength of the Soviet army present
00:10:12    and that it was the revolution and freedom struggle of 1956 that taught the Russians,
00:10:18    taught the Soviet Union, the Communists that Hungary
00:10:22    should be treated differently.
00:10:54    I'm a historian, and I don't deny that I'm interested in
00:11:01    the judgment of posterity and not just the opinion of contemporaries.
00:11:07    I trust that we will not go into Hungarian history shamefully
00:11:13    but as the free government of the first free-elected parliamentary assembly after a dictatorship,
00:11:20    which knew what should be done and did what could be done.